The modernization of Cosmo

Brian: 00:00:09

Welcome to the Rebooting Show.

Brian: 00:00:11

I am Brian Morrisey.

Brian: 00:00:12

This is a Cannes edition of the podcast.

Brian: 00:00:15

I think this is my 15th time to Cannes.

Brian: 00:00:18

there are worse fates in life, I gotta say.

Brian: 00:00:21

the week has only just gotten started, and to be perfectly honest, I never know how much of a tro barometer of the state of the media business Cannes is despite having to act like it is many times over the year.

Brian: 00:00:31

I have more , on that, in the rebooting newsletter.

Brian: 00:00:33

please check it out Rebooting is doing some events here.

Brian: 00:00:36

this is, for all of its flaws, probably the best gathering of all parts of the media ecosystem, from tech to marketing to some media, now to retail media.

Brian: 00:00:50

Pretty much creators, pretty much every part of the ecosystem sort of comes together here.

Brian: 00:00:55

and it's kind of telling who has the biggest splashes, you know, the giant tech platforms have massive beach installations and ad tech.

Brian: 00:01:04

Companies and data companies, are SCOs and yachts.

Brian: 00:01:08

and publishers have little smaller, outposts here.

Brian: 00:01:12

Often they have their own little houses, which sometimes are actually just, apartment suites.

Brian: 00:01:17

In any case, it's good to be here.

Brian: 00:01:18

in addition to this, live podcast you're about to hear, we're holding a media leaders dinner with our partners at x co. on Wednesday and

Brian: 00:01:26

on Thursday, Sarah Fisher and Neil Vogel are joining me, and hopefully Troy Young for a live recording of people versus algorithms at.

Brian: 00:01:35

Meredith Villa.

Brian: 00:01:37

So I'm excited to do a villa, podcast, pull side.

Brian: 00:01:41

we'll run that on Friday.

Brian: 00:01:42

And the PVA feed, this is a good reminder if you don't already, to check out people versus algorithms.

Brian: 00:01:47

It's a show where Troy and Alex Schleifer.

Brian: 00:01:49

Join me to break down patterns in media, technology and culture.

Brian: 00:01:53

Find it anywhere you get podcasts, including YouTube.

Brian: 00:01:56

I'm gonna be shifting to using YouTube for the Rebooting Show.

Brian: 00:01:59

I'm interested to see how that goes.

Brian: 00:02:01

I'm never totally convinced that these kind of podcasts, make that much sense in video, but I think that there's a way to do it, that it's actually additive and YouTube is.

Brian: 00:02:10

You know, it's become like a force for podcasting because podcasting discovery is not great.

Brian: 00:02:15

on that note, be sure to check out the three part, podcast, that we did, with Ben Smith from Semaphore and, Peter Kafka from, channels podcast, or two podcasts I really enjoy.

Brian: 00:02:27

you heard, one part of it on this feed, on Thursday.

Brian: 00:02:30

Any other two?

Brian: 00:02:31

or on the Seven four is mixed signals feed and also on Peter's, channels feed.

Brian: 00:02:35

So check both of those out.

Brian: 00:02:37

We held a live recording of the rebooting show from the Hearst House in Cannes.

Brian: 00:02:41

Earlier today.

Brian: 00:02:42

I spoke to Cosmopolitan, editor-in-Chief, Willa Bennett and Hearst Global CRO, Lisa Ryan, about how Cosmo is evolving from a magazine

Brian: 00:02:51

and a website into a multi-platform brand that aims to establish itself with a new generation as its guide to love and relationships.

Brian: 00:02:59

the days of 50 ways to drive him wild in bed are long gone.

Brian: 00:03:04

it is taking a more nuanced view of love and relationships with projects like, the video series Blind Date and also with Cosmos Sports, a new franchise spotlighting women athletes.

Brian: 00:03:14

Uh, we also discussed doing more with less in both editorial and in sales.

Brian: 00:03:18

How Cosmos next phase is more about.

Brian: 00:03:21

Creating IP that can be expressed in various ways and custom projects like, the resale collab, that Cosmo did with Depop, and also events like, the Valentine's Love Ball.

Brian: 00:03:32

Hope you enjoy the

Brian: 00:03:32

conversation

Brian: 00:03:39

today I wanted to have Willa on and Lisa to talk about Cosmo and what Cosmo means now because I always think.

Brian: 00:03:48

You know what brands mean?

Brian: 00:03:50

What media brands mean now has changed completely.

Brian: 00:03:53

Right.

Brian: 00:03:53

And so you have to move from being a publication to being a brand.

Brian: 00:03:58

so let's get into it.

Brian: 00:03:59

'cause we only have like a half hour, right?

Brian: 00:04:01

I know.

Willa: 00:04:01

It's not gonna be long enough.

Willa: 00:04:02

All right.

Brian: 00:04:02

Willa, so you are, you, you're nine months in.

Brian: 00:04:05

Right?

Brian: 00:04:06

And I'm interested in.

Brian: 00:04:08

Like, what did the Cosmo brand mean to you when you were like, I don't know, like 21 or something?

Brian: 00:04:15

What, what would it, what did it stand for?

Willa: 00:04:17

I feel like similarly, and I, I wanna ask you the same question 'cause I Oh no, you, you sim when we were talking, you were like, I used to read Cosmo and I was like, I didn't

Brian: 00:04:24

agree to read Cosmo.

Brian: 00:04:25

I saw Cosmo a lot.

Willa: 00:04:27

So we're off to a bad start, huh?

Willa: 00:04:29

no, I mean I've read Cosmo my whole life.

Willa: 00:04:32

I feel like what is so special about the brand and 60 years ago, When Helen Gurley Brown was editor and kind of took Cosmo

Willa: 00:04:39

into this new sphere, I think what was so special is it really was an authority for young women to understand relationships.

Willa: 00:04:47

And I think that's always been the core of Cosmo and the legacy of Cosmo.

Willa: 00:04:51

It's been this place where you can actually ask questions about yourself, ask questions about love, and really explore the intricacies that come with that.

Willa: 00:05:00

And so I think what was so exciting about me coming to Cosmo is I think.

Willa: 00:05:05

There's such a need for that right now, especially in the age, and I'm sure we'll get into this of, you know, influencers and creators.

Willa: 00:05:12

It's like, who is the authority in this space?

Willa: 00:05:15

And that's Cosmo.

Brian: 00:05:17

Yeah.

Brian: 00:05:17

So when I came into like contact with Cosmo, it was a totally different era, right?

Brian: 00:05:23

Like, and it was more about like 50 ways to drive him crazy in bed.

Brian: 00:05:28

Like that was the, I think that was literally the cover, like at least like eight or 10 times, like.

Brian: 00:05:34

And it was just completely different.

Brian: 00:05:35

So how do you modernize that?

Brian: 00:05:38

Because that stuff is completely out of date now.

Brian: 00:05:42

and I don't even think, like, probably most of your audience doesn't even know about that part of the brand.

Willa: 00:05:46

Well, I, I actually would argue that I, I think they have, like we, we will recirculate old covers.

Willa: 00:05:51

Um, Taylor Swift is on one.

Willa: 00:05:53

Jake Shane actually just brought it up on a podcast, and.

Willa: 00:05:57

The, the clip of Lauren and Jake Shane talking about the old Cosmo cover went incredibly viral.

Willa: 00:06:04

so they have, they have the association with the brand.

Willa: 00:06:06

They know what it is.

Willa: 00:06:07

Hypothetically, I think what's interesting, and I'm sure most people in this room don't know this, is that we, the sex part of it, like the platforms actually won't let us talk about sex.

Willa: 00:06:19

So, for example, on TikTok, we'll say sex, S-E-G-G-S.

Willa: 00:06:23

did you know that

Brian: 00:06:24

she humiliated?

Brian: 00:06:24

Humiliated?

Brian: 00:06:25

Did you know that?

Brian: 00:06:25

No, I didn't know that.

Willa: 00:06:26

Wow.

Willa: 00:06:26

Look, I'm teaching you something.

Willa: 00:06:28

Look at this.

Willa: 00:06:29

but, but it's such an interesting, it's so interesting 'cause like we, we speak about love and relationships in the way our audience does, but our actual platforms, we, we can't really openly talk about these things.

Willa: 00:06:40

So sags on TikTok, on Instagram, you know, we really lean into love.

Willa: 00:06:44

And I think at the end of the day, we really are just replicating how this younger audience is talking about love and relationships.

Willa: 00:06:50

And it feels organic to them, even though, you know, I, I tell you on this podcast that we can't say SEX and you laugh, but that, that's how young people are finding these conversations.

Brian: 00:06:59

Yeah.

Brian: 00:06:59

So Lisa, let's talk about the, the business side and how the business has changed.

Brian: 00:07:03

Right.

Brian: 00:07:03

Like, obviously, you know, print has a different purpose.

Brian: 00:07:07

It's, it's, it's quarterly now.

Brian: 00:07:09

Yeah.

Brian: 00:07:09

It's about creating moments.

Brian: 00:07:11

Still, still I'm sure like a good business.

Brian: 00:07:14

I think the, I think the, I feel like the last era was like transitioning these business into digital, and now to me, and tell me if I'm wrong here.

Brian: 00:07:23

It's about how do you make this like a true, like brand leaning into like a ip, leaning into being able to like, activate audiences, along with brands, but like what, what is when you're going out to the market, like what does Cosmo mean now?

Lisa: 00:07:38

Yeah, so.

Lisa: 00:07:40

First, I should say we have kind of, we think about two moats for us, right?

Lisa: 00:07:45

Two things that are our differentiators and that we have to build anything that we're gonna, create and put out in the world, around, one of them is our ip, Cosmo, our talent, Willa, our brand, and the other is data.

Lisa: 00:07:59

And we're obviously in this conversation talking about ip, that side of it.

Lisa: 00:08:03

so print, I think now is about moment.

Lisa: 00:08:05

So we probably have fewer issues.

Lisa: 00:08:07

We have four issues in print of Cosmo.

Lisa: 00:08:10

it's really a social first brand now.

Lisa: 00:08:12

That's where this generation is.

Lisa: 00:08:14

And so a lot of the energy that we're putting into this brand, both on the edit side and on the business side, is social with social on platform, not just social to drive back to our readers, I mean, to, to our, websites.

Lisa: 00:08:27

So, I think that's key for us, but it varies by brand other brands.

Lisa: 00:08:33

Have different priorities around their ip.

Lisa: 00:08:35

So delish is one of our recipes, is one of our, brands, and that's about recipes and that's about membership, right?

Lisa: 00:08:44

Good housekeeping.

Lisa: 00:08:45

That's about the institute, right?

Lisa: 00:08:48

So a really niche, super fan brand that we have.

Lisa: 00:08:52

Hot Rod is about events and merch.

Lisa: 00:08:55

So we really have to think about our IP based on the brand and based on how that audience.

Lisa: 00:09:01

Wants to see that brand show up.

Brian: 00:09:03

So I, something I've noticed, like that's been shifting is I used to talk with people and they would, they would talk about their comp score numbers all the time, and now nobody talks about that anymore.

Brian: 00:09:13

And it's weird, and obviously the traffic era is over and I felt like the transition, I do another podcast with Troy Young.

Brian: 00:09:20

and you know, his whole thing was like months to moments when he was at Hearst and a lot of it was digitizing the business and

Brian: 00:09:26

getting that kind of metabolism, you know, that you saw at a bustle, you were at Bustle and, and other places that at the time.

Brian: 00:09:35

They were gonna take over.

Brian: 00:09:37

Like that was, you know, what Brian was saying, he was gonna take over like this kind of business.

Brian: 00:09:42

He's not saying it anymore.

Brian: 00:09:43

and they, they ended up buying, you know, magazine brands and, I think a lot of their business now is, is events at the end of the day.

Brian: 00:09:52

I went to one at, like, art Basel.

Brian: 00:09:54

I was the oldest person at it.

Brian: 00:09:55

It was very awkward.

Brian: 00:09:57

but like, when you're, like, talk to me about the, the IP and how you end up, you know, building that part of the business.

Brian: 00:10:03

'cause I don't think these days, like putting ads on pages, whether it's in print or on a website, is probably going to be, it is gonna be a part of the future, but it's, it's a smaller part.

Lisa: 00:10:17

Yeah, and I'd say we think about a brand events, again, by brand because they differ.

Lisa: 00:10:23

So for some of our more luxury oriented brands like L or Harper's Bazaar, Esquire, those are like kind of, curating small groups of kind of influencers and editors and brands.

Lisa: 00:10:37

and then we have.

Lisa: 00:10:39

And of the, the whole gamut.

Lisa: 00:10:40

All the way to, we just had our, to use this brand again.

Lisa: 00:10:44

We just had our hot rod power tour last week and it was, I showed you the picture.

Lisa: 00:10:47

Yeah.

Lisa: 00:10:47

It was 6 6700 cars and thousands of people who pay to go.

Lisa: 00:10:54

And so these brands, we have to think about each one and how an event is or isn't relevant for it.

Lisa: 00:11:01

And

Willa: 00:11:01

I'll, if that makes sense.

Willa: 00:11:02

Just add on the Cosmo front, of my favorite events that we've, I've ever put on my career was for Valentine's Day.

Willa: 00:11:08

We had a party the night before Valentine's Day, so like a kickoff, partnered with Bumble, you walked in and, Bumble and I created this, this wristband.

Willa: 00:11:18

So if you were single, you wore this yellow wristband and you were to mingle with people to find your Valentine for the next day.

Willa: 00:11:24

And it was to celebrate our love issue, which had McLay Kin and Brenda Song on the cover, which you told.

Willa: 00:11:30

I know them.

Willa: 00:11:30

I do.

Willa: 00:11:30

You told me.

Willa: 00:11:31

You know, both of them.

Willa: 00:11:32

I don't

Brian: 00:11:32

know.

Brian: 00:11:32

Doci.

Willa: 00:11:33

I

Brian: 00:11:34

don't

Willa: 00:11:35

you do know Doci?

Willa: 00:11:36

I don't.

Willa: 00:11:36

You saw her on the cover of calls.

Willa: 00:11:38

I know.

Willa: 00:11:38

That's where

Brian: 00:11:39

I, that's when I learned about Doci.

Willa: 00:11:40

Look at this.

Willa: 00:11:42

Um, but I've learned

Brian: 00:11:43

now two things from you.

Brian: 00:11:44

Okay.

Willa: 00:11:44

Amazing.

Willa: 00:11:45

and we're only

Brian: 00:11:45

like 10 minutes in.

Willa: 00:11:47

So McCulley cul, McCulley, Culkin and Brenda Song were on the cover of my first print issue.

Willa: 00:11:51

It was the first time a romantic couple was on the cover.

Willa: 00:11:54

And the reason I felt so that felt so instinctual to me is I wanted to really show that we're going back to the roots of Cosmo and.

Willa: 00:12:02

Love and relationships is part of our future.

Willa: 00:12:04

And we partnered with Bumble on this party and that's such a great, like a great example of like a partnership that really was a win on both sides and felt so organic to us.

Willa: 00:12:14

You know, JT performed and we had cool DJs perform and you know, they were people that were influential in the love and

Willa: 00:12:21

relationship space coming, but you know, of course the Bumble tie in really did make sense and helped and it was really fun.

Willa: 00:12:28

Yeah, and,

Lisa: 00:12:28

and I'd say that at that event, It was about cultural relevance too, and it's about brands, right through the lens of Willa's vision and Willa's brand.

Lisa: 00:12:39

Being able to kind of come to life and celebrate with people in the audience.

Lisa: 00:12:44

and we're doing another one next week, I think, right?

Lisa: 00:12:47

Can we announce this one?

Willa: 00:12:48

Yeah.

Willa: 00:12:48

Yeah.

Willa: 00:12:48

Saturday.

Willa: 00:12:49

Um, we're doing a clothing sale at Depop, so you can come and buy some editors clothes.

Willa: 00:12:53

We have some talent, but another really exciting partnership, six months.

Willa: 00:12:57

dream Brand for us.

Willa: 00:12:58

McCulley Kin your favorite celebrity mm-hmm.

Willa: 00:13:00

Was actually wearing a shirt on the cover sourced from Depop.

Willa: 00:13:03

Okay.

Willa: 00:13:04

So cool.

Willa: 00:13:04

So

Brian: 00:13:05

Depop iss like a resale.

Lisa: 00:13:06

Yeah.

Lisa: 00:13:06

But that's what's culturally relevant, right?

Lisa: 00:13:08

Yeah, because for Gen Z, it's like they're totally obsessed with reselling.

Willa: 00:13:14

So yeah.

Willa: 00:13:14

On Depop, I mean, Depop is huge for Gen Z. and so the fact that we have.

Willa: 00:13:19

On the cover, there's an Hermes blanket.

Willa: 00:13:21

There's a Bodhi sweater, but then there's also a shirt source from Depop that really reflects how the audience is shopping.

Willa: 00:13:27

and so we did that organically.

Willa: 00:13:28

And then, you know, through it, we started speaking to Depop, and I'm so excited.

Willa: 00:13:32

I'm actually flying back a day early from Canne.

Willa: 00:13:34

To be there 'cause I'm so excited.

Willa: 00:13:36

Okay,

Brian: 00:13:36

great.

Brian: 00:13:36

so how do you compete with, with influencers and with TikTok?

Brian: 00:13:40

I mean, obviously you, you're, you're big on TikTok and you're gonna be on all of these platforms, but I think one of the big shifts that everyone is dealing with is, and you you're gonna

Brian: 00:13:50

see it like all week along the Crossette, like, is, you know, a lot of the movement has been from institutional brands into like individuals and.

Brian: 00:14:00

Creators right in, in your space and they have leaned into a more authentic, in quotes, like connection with the audience.

Brian: 00:14:10

I think the individual has a lot of advantages these days.

Brian: 00:14:13

We're just in a period where institutional, just institutions of all kinds are, trusted less.

Brian: 00:14:21

How do you end up thinking about the differentiation of like a, a brand with a lot of legacy like Cosmopolitan and leaning into that and, and taking advantage of that.

Brian: 00:14:32

But at the same time, you're competing with, a lot of other people that, Cosmo never used to compete with.

Brian: 00:14:38

It used to just be you're competing in your category with other publications.

Willa: 00:14:42

I, I think it's the reason that when I came in, my priority really was social, just because that is where the conversations are happening.

Willa: 00:14:48

But I, I don't find myself competing with influencers.

Willa: 00:14:50

I find myself being a platform for influencers and curating them carefully.

Willa: 00:14:55

And I think because everyone can be a voice, it also means no one's a voice.

Willa: 00:14:59

And so a place like Cosmo really gives the authority.

Willa: 00:15:01

And, you know, I, I, I speak to people when we put them on the cover, like it really means something and it can really give them.

Willa: 00:15:08

Authority.

Willa: 00:15:09

It can really give them credibility.

Willa: 00:15:12

Yeah, credibility is really the word.

Willa: 00:15:14

so thank you.

Willa: 00:15:14

But yeah, I think that credibility is unmatched.

Willa: 00:15:17

And that's something that you, having the Cosmo logo being on a newsstand, being on a digital cover, huge.

Brian: 00:15:24

Does a digital cover mean as much as like a regular cover?

Brian: 00:15:26

'cause it's just a photo on a website, right?

Willa: 00:15:29

I mean, everyone wants print, but we can make digital.

Willa: 00:15:33

Shy.

Willa: 00:15:34

We can make

Brian: 00:15:34

it bigger.

Willa: 00:15:34

Yeah, we can make it by our Gracie Abrams.

Willa: 00:15:36

Cover broke records.

Willa: 00:15:38

I think the whole first issue of Cosmopolitan reached 120 million people just on social.

Brian: 00:15:44

Okay.

Brian: 00:15:44

Pretty wild.

Brian: 00:15:45

I didn't know that either.

Brian: 00:15:46

That's another Okay, number

Lisa: 00:15:47

three.

Lisa: 00:15:48

Um, I'll just add that like Willa herself is a tastemaker.

Lisa: 00:15:52

And so influencers want the kind of credibility and the, the nod, you used a good word, curation.

Lisa: 00:15:59

More and more that's what editors are doing and that's what our brands are doing is, and influencers kind of come and go and we're really trying to like talk about what's relevant in that moment.

Brian: 00:16:09

Yeah.

Brian: 00:16:09

Are you an influencer?

Lisa: 00:16:11

No.

Brian: 00:16:11

No.

Willa: 00:16:12

No, I, I'm an editor.

Willa: 00:16:13

It's different,

Brian: 00:16:14

but the job of editor is different.

Brian: 00:16:16

I mean, it's different in this space.

Brian: 00:16:17

I mean, obviously, Helen Curley Brown and Joanna Coles were just like both, you know, well known.

Brian: 00:16:23

But I almost think that, like, to lead one of these brands, you know, you, you, you have to be, yes, you have to be a, a, a good editor, but you need to be more like in, you are, you're part of like, blind date, for instance, right?

Brian: 00:16:35

I mean, oh, so you watch Blind Date, you're of course not the one with Doche, but like, uh.

Brian: 00:16:41

no, I mean, I look, we, let's, let's get into blind date.

Brian: 00:16:44

'cause I'm interested in sort of like, you know, you are going to be a a i, I feel like the role of quote unquote magazine editor is clearly different now than it was before.

Willa: 00:16:55

Yeah, I love this question.

Willa: 00:16:56

blind date's interesting.

Willa: 00:16:57

I, well, first to speak on your influencer point.

Willa: 00:17:01

For example, Amelia, who does Chicken shop date, she was on the cover of Cosmo uk.

Willa: 00:17:06

We ran it inside the Doche issue, actually, which you clearly haven't read.

Willa: 00:17:09

So

Brian: 00:17:10

I saw it online.

Brian: 00:17:11

I'm modern.

Brian: 00:17:11

Okay.

Willa: 00:17:11

Okay.

Willa: 00:17:12

Very cool.

Willa: 00:17:12

so that's a good example of someone like that who, you know, has her own platform and has her own empire, for lack of a better word, but she, she was so honored to be on the cover of Cosmo uk.

Willa: 00:17:23

Truly, every time I see her, she's like, thank you for that cover.

Willa: 00:17:25

Thank you for running inside the us.

Willa: 00:17:27

Because it gave her that authority and that it, it took her to a different level.

Willa: 00:17:32

So I, I will say that is a very concrete example of how public, like we are curating the influencers, but we aren't necessarily an influencer.

Willa: 00:17:40

And then on the topic of blind date, I feel like for me it was just very intuitive.

Willa: 00:17:44

It's like our audience is on these platforms, our audience are asking questions about.

Willa: 00:17:50

Love and relationships and blind date was something only Cosmo could do.

Willa: 00:17:54

And so basically it's me.

Willa: 00:17:56

For those of the you who don't know, I'm blindfolded and a guest comes in and it's a celebrity and I have to guess who it is.

Willa: 00:18:04

But in the process, I'm reading Old Cosmos and asking them to kind of think about the relationship advice cover lines that you mentioned included.

Willa: 00:18:14

And we really talk about and go back and forth.

Willa: 00:18:16

And I guess, and most of the time I'm wrong, sometimes I'm right.

Willa: 00:18:19

our first episode with Renee Rap, I think got 1.9 million views.

Willa: 00:18:23

It's crazy.

Brian: 00:18:24

And those are on YouTube mostly?

Brian: 00:18:26

Um,

Willa: 00:18:26

yeah.

Willa: 00:18:27

I like to think of it as like a video podcast.

Willa: 00:18:30

Mm-hmm.

Willa: 00:18:30

we were kind of talking about this before, but I, I feel like for our audience, podcasts are everything, but it's really the video formats.

Willa: 00:18:37

And so I was like, let's cut out the middle man and just make the video part.

Willa: 00:18:40

So it runs on YouTube, but it's the biggest on Instagram reels and TikTok.

Brian: 00:18:44

Okay.

Brian: 00:18:45

And, and let's talk about the commercial element of this.

Brian: 00:18:47

'cause you, you integrated, this is done with Elf, right?

Lisa: 00:18:51

yeah, blind.

Lisa: 00:18:52

So ELF is the, initial underwriter or sponsor of it.

Lisa: 00:18:55

And what's interesting is that this is also kind of something that's new for us.

Lisa: 00:19:00

and I think for, for media companies overall is, brands and our editorial teams are working together in really interesting ways.

Lisa: 00:19:07

So in this example, Willa is actually.

Lisa: 00:19:10

In the, interstitial, in the ad creative, for Elf that's, in between the series.

Lisa: 00:19:16

So it's, it's really collaborations and it's, you know, whether it's branded content, um, it's always slugged, right?

Lisa: 00:19:24

So whether it's branded content, whether it's really kind of consulting and helping brands understand what's relevant in that moment.

Lisa: 00:19:32

They go on calls with us, editors do.

Lisa: 00:19:35

this type of a relationship is relatively new and it's because brands really do wanna connect on a, on a relevant, on a culturally relevant level with their audiences.

Lisa: 00:19:47

And Willa and our brands help them do that,

Willa: 00:19:50

and Elf is the perfect brand for this because they're so innovative in how they, how they think about marketing.

Willa: 00:19:57

and so this was something I wanted to collaborate with them really badly and I'm so happy it happened.

Willa: 00:20:01

Because they're just the perfect integration.

Willa: 00:20:03

Yes.

Willa: 00:20:03

And

Lisa: 00:20:03

they do, they do.

Lisa: 00:20:04

There's, there's another thing that brands help with too on the editorial side, and this is how we monetize it, right?

Lisa: 00:20:10

If Ella, if, Willow wants to do a story, but we don't necessarily have the budget for it or the pages for it, if they find that marriage brands will underwrite a feature that she wants to do.

Lisa: 00:20:24

So I don't know if you wanna talk about the Cosmos Sport

Willa: 00:20:26

feature, but Yeah.

Willa: 00:20:27

Cosmos Sports was something I. Again, instinctually knew we needed to launch.

Willa: 00:20:32

I think women's sports have blown up.

Willa: 00:20:34

I'm a huge WNBA fan.

Willa: 00:20:35

The last game with Caitlyn Clark was crazy, but I was watching our, I saw

Brian: 00:20:39

the logo threes.

Willa: 00:20:40

It's wild.

Willa: 00:20:41

Um, but for example, like our audience is so hungry for that, and they really do see Angel Reese in the same lens that they see Billie Eilish.

Willa: 00:20:50

Like they're really competing.

Willa: 00:20:51

They're celebrities.

Willa: 00:20:52

So our POV we sat in a room with, I sat in a room with the team and we brainstorm like, what is Cosmo's unique angle?

Willa: 00:20:58

On this phenomenon that's not going anywhere.

Willa: 00:21:01

It's only getting bigger and it's kind of our end goal is a day in a life.

Willa: 00:21:05

So we have a photographer follow a female athlete for an entire day and it's everything from like, you know, breakfast to going to bed going out, and it's really showing this unmatched access we had, and it was something I really wanted to do.

Willa: 00:21:19

But you know, editorial budgets are small.

Willa: 00:21:22

so I was so grateful that Coach was able to partner with us on it and mm-hmm.

Willa: 00:21:25

Now we have this amazing franchise that's just getting bigger and bigger.

Brian: 00:21:28

So on that, like how do you end up doing more with Less?

Brian: 00:21:31

Right?

Brian: 00:21:32

Because like, I think this is like the era of like the magazine memoir.

Brian: 00:21:36

Like there's a lot of people who are Yeah.

Brian: 00:21:38

Even o older than me who are coming out with their 'cause I miss this.

Brian: 00:21:42

you know, that, that media, you know, with all the bar carts in, in, in Conde and giving people luxury cars and writing off their vacation home mortgages sounds like an amazing business and they made money.

Brian: 00:21:54

it's different.

Brian: 00:21:55

I dunno if you noticed, it's a little different.

Brian: 00:21:57

Um, really?

Brian: 00:21:58

Yeah.

Brian: 00:21:58

Whoa.

Brian: 00:21:59

It's like if you were born, like you're teaching me something, 20 years earlier would've been amazing.

Brian: 00:22:05

but how do you end up doing more with less and what do you end up doing?

Brian: 00:22:08

Like literally less of it?

Brian: 00:22:09

I mean, obviously you're, you're publishing fewer.

Brian: 00:22:13

Fewer issues of the magazine, but talk to me about being an editor and just in the reality of this era.

Brian: 00:22:19

It's really weird 'cause I'm like looking out on like the Mediterranean when I'm talking about, it's kind of nice here too.

Brian: 00:22:23

Austerity measures.

Willa: 00:22:25

Yeah.

Willa: 00:22:26

I I, I never was part of that era, you know, I, I came up in social media at a time where like, there even social media editors, like, we're not even like in the print meetings.

Willa: 00:22:36

So it's like I, I've never had access to that.

Willa: 00:22:38

I don't miss it.

Willa: 00:22:38

I don't know it.

Willa: 00:22:39

However, obviously I've read all the books.

Willa: 00:22:42

and I don't, I are like, where's my town

Brian: 00:22:44

car?

Willa: 00:22:45

There's like, there, there, no, but there's like part of me that's like, yeah, if I could have a private jet for every single photo shoot, there would be a private jet in every photo shoot.

Willa: 00:22:53

Like, how cool that I, I can't lean on that.

Willa: 00:22:55

I think creatively it just, it makes me really e everything we're doing has to be intentional, basically.

Willa: 00:23:01

Like there's no time for excess.

Willa: 00:23:04

We don't do reshoots.

Willa: 00:23:05

Like, it's just a different, different time.

Willa: 00:23:07

And I think that's really exciting as a creative and a writer because.

Willa: 00:23:11

You know, we, we can't spend loads of money.

Willa: 00:23:13

but yeah, also, I mean, I think again, like print covers are more sparse.

Willa: 00:23:17

It means something different.

Willa: 00:23:18

So I, I think with every argument it's also positive creatively.

Brian: 00:23:23

Yeah.

Brian: 00:23:24

So talk about like how you use the, the, the print to be, it's like something bigger.

Brian: 00:23:29

'cause I feel like, you know, print's role has changed a lot, obviously, and, and now, and now you want to like, make a splash with print.

Brian: 00:23:38

It's not about like.

Brian: 00:23:39

Being the main way that you connect with the audience?

Brian: 00:23:43

I don't think anymore.

Brian: 00:23:44

Definitely

Lisa: 00:23:45

not.

Lisa: 00:23:45

our, our, digital audience, just to give you an idea, we have 68 brands around the world, 28 languages, 47 countries, digital print, social events, the whole gamut.

Lisa: 00:23:59

But our digital is bigger than our print.

Lisa: 00:24:02

Our digital is 550 million people on our website, roughly the same on social.

Lisa: 00:24:07

550 million people on social.

Lisa: 00:24:10

Our print is about less than 200 million.

Lisa: 00:24:13

and so we, you know, we think about print, like I said, moments.

Lisa: 00:24:18

It's like, how do we kind of break through and how do we have this almost like this long form moment?

Lisa: 00:24:24

But what we're doing is publishing 24 7 every day.

Lisa: 00:24:28

And you are right when you ask the question like, how do editors do it?

Lisa: 00:24:32

Because it is, you have to make choices.

Lisa: 00:24:34

You can't do everything right.

Lisa: 00:24:36

We can't be on every platform with every brand.

Lisa: 00:24:39

And so a lot of work goes into kind of being intentional about where we show up.

Lisa: 00:24:45

And so print is not as big for us as it used to be.

Lisa: 00:24:49

It's definitely much smaller business than digital now for us.

Lisa: 00:24:53

And, and so I think we think about it, but we think about it as something special, not something that is kind of primary.

Brian: 00:25:01

Yeah.

Brian: 00:25:02

But like, I guess what I'm getting at is like, how do you make it like bigger?

Brian: 00:25:05

Like, I mean, do you attach it to like events?

Lisa: 00:25:08

well, yes.

Lisa: 00:25:08

I mean, you wanna

Willa: 00:25:09

talk about the love issue because that was Yeah.

Willa: 00:25:11

Yeah.

Willa: 00:25:11

Here's, here's my thought and I, I'm coming from a social video background, so I will preface it with that.

Willa: 00:25:17

So we have McCulley Kin and Brenda Song on the cover.

Willa: 00:25:19

It's the first time.

Willa: 00:25:20

A romantic couple has ever been on the cover of Cosmopolitan Made History and my POV was like, I lined it up the print date with Valentine's Day.

Willa: 00:25:31

So it actually hit stands on February 14th.

Willa: 00:25:33

And the objective to this team, and you know, we all gathered, was how do we make Cosmopolitan synonymous, synonymous with Valentine's Day?

Willa: 00:25:42

And so we did that through a couple different ways.

Willa: 00:25:45

You know, we had a kiss cam in Times Square where we actually were getting.

Willa: 00:25:49

Live footage of couples and we were posting it.

Willa: 00:25:52

We had a digital cover come out immediately after Brenda Song and McCulley Culkin, and it was Gracie Abrams who very influential.

Willa: 00:26:00

Do you know who that is?

Brian: 00:26:01

No.

Willa: 00:26:02

No.

Willa: 00:26:03

Well, people talk about Taylor Swift a lot on your podcast.

Willa: 00:26:05

I'm not gonna

Brian: 00:26:05

lie to you, will.

Willa: 00:26:07

And Gracie opened for Taylor Swift.

Willa: 00:26:09

So, okay, now you're three in a row talking about Taylor Swift.

Willa: 00:26:12

Got it.

Willa: 00:26:12

I had to, I just had to slip that in.

Willa: 00:26:14

That was my internal goal.

Willa: 00:26:15

And just

Lisa: 00:26:16

going back to the KISS camp, that was on a billboard in Times Square.

Lisa: 00:26:19

Yeah.

Lisa: 00:26:19

So that's like massive rage.

Willa: 00:26:21

we had Serena Cordell from Love Island.

Willa: 00:26:23

There are two celebrity stars and reality TV stars.

Willa: 00:26:26

And I felt really strongly that we were gonna be the first publication to shoot them in a very.

Willa: 00:26:31

Serious.

Willa: 00:26:31

Like take them really seriously, put them in high fashion and have a full editorial.

Willa: 00:26:35

So, you know, we had these moments where we were rolling it out throughout the week and the, and it all ended on Valentine's Day.

Willa: 00:26:41

So it was a moment.

Willa: 00:26:43

And then of course we had the love ball with Bumble.

Willa: 00:26:45

We had a crumble cookie collaboration.

Willa: 00:26:48

We had these fun popups in this organic way that made sense to our audience.

Willa: 00:26:54

And of course the buzz came from it, but we never.

Willa: 00:26:57

Set out to create buzz.

Willa: 00:26:59

Like we don't, I, I get that question a lot.

Willa: 00:27:01

Mm-hmm.

Willa: 00:27:02

Like, how do you create buzz?

Willa: 00:27:03

And I'm like, you don't create buzz by saying you're gonna create buzz.

Willa: 00:27:05

You just make content that actually resonates and like actually means something.

Willa: 00:27:09

And I think that was the goal of the love issue.

Brian: 00:27:12

So what do you deprioritize then?

Willa: 00:27:15

It's all about focus.

Willa: 00:27:16

You really, it's not about deprioritizing, it's about focusing on what's important and knowing what is right for the brand.

Willa: 00:27:23

And a lot of it's instinctual, like there's no magic.

Willa: 00:27:27

Where you don't just like sprinkle fairy dust and you know what to do, but it's very instinctual.

Willa: 00:27:31

Like it felt very instinctual that Cosmo needed a dating show.

Willa: 00:27:34

It felt very instinctual that we need to show up in sports.

Willa: 00:27:37

And of course when we get brands on board, that just makes it bigger and more exciting.

Willa: 00:27:42

Yeah, and,

Lisa: 00:27:42

and you talk a lot about this, but, but I'm gonna kind of steal your phrase.

Lisa: 00:27:46

Willis says, the audience is my boss.

Lisa: 00:27:48

So I think if we're prioritizing, it's where that audience wants to see the brand show up.

Brian: 00:27:54

Yeah.

Brian: 00:27:55

So it seems like, like is, are TikTok and Instagram now, like, like how do you end up thinking about like these platforms versus the magazine?

Brian: 00:28:04

Like I, I assume like before it was, you know, I used to call like matching luggage and, and stuff and ad campaigns, but like, you know, it was like, okay, how do we express the magazine through these digital channels?

Brian: 00:28:15

And that has to be different now.

Brian: 00:28:18

Like, and so do you end up, are those almost like more important

Willa: 00:28:22

than the magazine?

Willa: 00:28:23

No, it's all part of the ecosystem you're creating.

Willa: 00:28:26

but I, I, I felt this way throughout my career.

Willa: 00:28:29

Like you should not post the same piece of content across every platform.

Willa: 00:28:33

Like that just doesn't work.

Willa: 00:28:34

The audience is smart.

Willa: 00:28:36

You need to create platform specific content and create content that works.

Willa: 00:28:41

One of the first things I did when I started at Cosmos, I was like, we're not using Instagram to drive traffic.

Willa: 00:28:46

We're using Instagram to.

Willa: 00:28:47

Create engagement and start real conversations, and our engagement is up 50% and TikTok iss up 70%.

Willa: 00:28:55

So it, it's working.

Willa: 00:28:56

You just have to, you're kind of like a content creator.

Willa: 00:28:59

The social team, like they're turning out content.

Willa: 00:29:01

They're looking at the Gracie Abrams story and being like, this clip is gonna go on TikTok, but this one's gonna go on

Lisa: 00:29:07

Instagram.

Lisa: 00:29:08

And on the monetization side, on social, we're up on what we call organic social, which is the on platform.

Lisa: 00:29:14

Again, not trying to drive people back, but on platform, whether it's an interstitial in reels or something in the feed up.

Lisa: 00:29:20

150% first half this year over last year.

Lisa: 00:29:23

So we're kind of traveling along with her growth on the brand, on social.

Lisa: 00:29:28

So does the revenue opportunity,

Brian: 00:29:30

so does at some point like Instagram, like become like.

Brian: 00:29:35

A bigger revenue driver than the magazine.

Lisa: 00:29:38

I'll tell you, I just got back from Asia and we have a big, presence for L in China and social is bigger than any other revenue stream in China.

Lisa: 00:29:51

So it depends on the market, it depends on the audience, but yes, in some places it is bigger and it is important and only getting more important.

Lisa: 00:30:00

It's how we're discovering new readers are finding us.

Brian: 00:30:03

Yeah, I wanna talk a little bit about Aura, because you guys are, I was just, Mike was, was giving me a little demo.

Brian: 00:30:09

We, you guys were there with it.

Brian: 00:30:10

Yeah.

Brian: 00:30:10

You, you should all do the demo with Mike, at, at his iPad.

Brian: 00:30:14

but talk to a little bit about like Aura.

Brian: 00:30:15

'cause we had talked about it here like a couple, a couple years ago.

Brian: 00:30:18

It's, it's your first party data like solution and.

Brian: 00:30:22

talk to me about this next evolution with with Aura Insights, because to me it sort of fits in with the like more with less in that.

Brian: 00:30:29

Like you have to be able to, you have to be able to like to, to just get to a solution like quicker.

Brian: 00:30:36

Like there's a, there's a lot that goes into the publishing process, that needs to get more efficient.

Lisa: 00:30:42

Yeah.

Lisa: 00:30:42

And, and some people may not be familiar with Aura.

Lisa: 00:30:45

so last year to your point, we launched Aura as a targeting tool and that takes contextual signals, behavioral signals, and predictive AI

Lisa: 00:30:53

signals and allows us to, in a really relevant way, deliver the ads, for advertisers against our content that is gonna make it perform the best.

Lisa: 00:31:03

And it's kind of far and away, better than audience or demo targeting any other type of targeting that we're doing.

Lisa: 00:31:10

So you're getting double digit increases.

Lisa: 00:31:12

From that.

Lisa: 00:31:13

And then when you add formats to that, because it's targeting and creative, you're talking about much greater, you're talking about double the performance.

Lisa: 00:31:22

So, so the, our targeting was the first step.

Lisa: 00:31:25

Our iq, which is what you just saw, is really an intelligence engine.

Lisa: 00:31:30

It's a recom, it's going to be a recommendation engine.

Lisa: 00:31:33

But this first phase of it is really helping us by crawling, using AI to crawl all of our content across all of our brands.

Lisa: 00:31:41

It's giving us, it's extracting the trends and informing what we recommend to our clients.

Lisa: 00:31:47

And so it does, you know, your question was about really efficiency and about more with less.

Lisa: 00:31:53

It does help us really kind of organize our people toward higher order work.

Lisa: 00:31:59

Yeah.

Lisa: 00:31:59

So that they can both be faster and kind of use the data to make the recommendation.

Lisa: 00:32:06

So we've kind of harnessed that in a way that really, I don't think any other publisher has.

Brian: 00:32:10

Okay.

Brian: 00:32:11

So it's mostly like an internal like tool for now?

Brian: 00:32:13

Yes, for now.

Brian: 00:32:14

Right.

Brian: 00:32:15

Because I think, you know, one of the big themes of this week was this was, like I said, this was an agency like event for, for the longest time.

Brian: 00:32:23

And it's, this started with a bunch of like French ad ad agencies wanting to do, wanting to give awards to each other.

Brian: 00:32:29

the agency business is changing.

Brian: 00:32:31

Oh my God.

Brian: 00:32:32

and so, you know, they all wanna be AI companies, right.

Brian: 00:32:35

And.

Brian: 00:32:36

I think the publishers are always downstream of, of all the tech changes that are coming and like how, how do you see that changing how you go to market?

Brian: 00:32:47

Because they wanna, they wanna automate everything, the creative, everything.

Brian: 00:32:51

And so to me it seems like publishers are gonna become more like the ad agencies Were.

Lisa: 00:32:58

Yeah, I mean we, yes, and, I'll say more of our business, and this is relevant, but, I have to start with this as a, a foundational layer.

Lisa: 00:33:07

More of our business is direct than programmatic agencies are focusing a lot more on programmatic these days.

Lisa: 00:33:13

And, you know, direct for us means we're, we're literally kind of with our clients all the time.

Lisa: 00:33:20

and so that deep relationship that we've had for decades is really about helping them figure out how to connect with our audiences in the most relevant way.

Lisa: 00:33:28

So every business is changing, not just agencies, but I think what we're very focused on is our proprietary first party data that is privacy safe and that, you know, really we can control in our ecosystem.

Lisa: 00:33:43

And it's, the data when you extract it is incredibly valuable because it's interest based.

Lisa: 00:33:48

Data, it's intent based data.

Lisa: 00:33:51

So we'll take signals from, not only our content right, and what somebody's reading, but we'll take signals from an affiliate link that someone is clicking on.

Lisa: 00:34:01

So we know that there is intent to buy that product.

Lisa: 00:34:04

And actually here at can, we're announcing a partnership with Amazon that is, harnessing both our intent signals and their purchase signals.

Lisa: 00:34:13

And so through the Amazon DSP, you can buy auras.

Lisa: 00:34:17

That way.

Lisa: 00:34:18

So I think, we are finding ways whether, you know it's agencies or whether through, whether it's through agencies or whether it's direct with clients to really in a privacy safe way, offer a, a solution that can be, super effective for them.

Brian: 00:34:33

Yeah.

Brian: 00:34:34

last thing, Willa.

Brian: 00:34:35

I think, are you like geriatric Gen Z or are you

Willa: 00:34:38

I'm 30, so I'm a millennial.

Willa: 00:34:40

Oh my gosh.

Brian: 00:34:41

Are, you're so, so.

Brian: 00:34:42

Okay.

Brian: 00:34:42

I'm a millennial.

Brian: 00:34:42

Okay.

Brian: 00:34:43

Um, through and through.

Brian: 00:34:44

All right.

Brian: 00:34:45

So I'll still ask you about Jeff, like when you do talk with brands.

Brian: 00:34:48

'cause I think the big challenge for a lot of brands just and going forward in ai, I think is gonna just, exacerbate this is how

Brian: 00:34:56

they become culturally relevant in a kind of like, I am gonna use all these overused buzzwords, but it's can, in an authentic way.

Brian: 00:35:05

Right?

Brian: 00:35:06

Like, and a lot of times I think that's difficult.

Brian: 00:35:09

Like particularly when, when reaching.

Brian: 00:35:11

You know, younger people.

Brian: 00:35:13

So what, what, what, like what do you end up like advising them?

Willa: 00:35:16

to listen to, like, to really listen to your audience, like truly, like really think audience first and think platform specific.

Willa: 00:35:23

Don't just jump on a trend, but really, really think long term about it.

Willa: 00:35:27

What makes sense for your brand?

Willa: 00:35:29

And you know, there's some TikTok trends that like Cosmo won't touch with a 10 foot pole.

Willa: 00:35:33

It's not our space that we have nothing to add, but again, intentionality and the readers are my boss truly.

Brian: 00:35:41

Okay, cool.

Brian: 00:35:42

I'm gonna leave it there if anyone has any questions.

Brian: 00:35:44

I think you guys feel questions.

Brian: 00:35:46

It's too late now.

Brian: 00:35:46

Yeah.

: 00:35:47

Willa, one of the things that we have been seeing a lot with young audiences is a move towards, uh, a fascination with a collection of physical media.

: 00:35:56

What's Cosmo doing to build a portfolio of physical  collectible, media, et cetera, aside from course that capitalized on print?

Willa: 00:36:04

Uh, that's amazing.

Willa: 00:36:05

So, two things I wanna highlight.

Willa: 00:36:06

one Doci, who is the most recent cover of Cosmos.

Willa: 00:36:10

She's an amazing performer, singer.

Willa: 00:36:12

so lucky to have her, her big motif in her work is the alligator, right?

Willa: 00:36:17

So we found this coffee shop in New York.

Willa: 00:36:21

That is called Do Not Feed the Alligators.

Willa: 00:36:24

And we actually did a popup there where we had magazines and we, we got people to sign up.

Willa: 00:36:29

It was a membership play for us.

Willa: 00:36:31

and it was so fun.

Willa: 00:36:32

All these readers swarmed there and it, it really felt like a community.

Willa: 00:36:35

I I, to use another buzzword, like it really, like Cosmo readers were like coming out of the woodwork to come and sign up and become a member of Cosmo.

Willa: 00:36:44

So that's one thing.

Willa: 00:36:45

We also had hats there.

Willa: 00:36:47

we have a Cosmo hat, which maybe you've seen people have worn.

Willa: 00:36:51

You cannot purchase it.

Willa: 00:36:52

It's really just for loyal readers.

Willa: 00:36:54

so that's one thing.

Willa: 00:36:55

and, and you know, Depop is another great example of like, we're showing up.

Willa: 00:36:59

it's connected to the print magazine, but it really is a physical event and a space.

Brian: 00:37:04

All right, cool.

Brian: 00:37:05

We're gonna end it there.

Brian: 00:37:06

Thank you both.

Brian: 00:37:06

Cool.

Brian: 00:37:06

Thank you all.

Lisa: 00:37:07

Thank you.

Lisa: 00:37:07

Have fun at can.