Episode 175
How Variety straddles B2B and B2C
Variety co-editors-in-chief Cynthia Littleton and Ramin Setoodeh joined me to discuss how they strike this balance. We talk about how you treat publications as bigger brands, why print still matters in these models, the changing nature of celebrity in a creator era, how Variety builds franchises like Actors on Actors and the challenges facing the entertainment industry.
Transcript
Welcome to the Rebooting Show.
Speaker:I'm Brian Morrissey.
Speaker:This is a summer episode.
Speaker:we are.
Speaker:I guess we're heading into, into August now in this, episode, I am joined by
Speaker:Cynthia Littleton and Ramin Setoodeh.
Speaker:they are the co-editors in Chief of Variety, and we talk about.
Speaker:How they're taking one of Hollywood's oldest, trades and pulling off
Speaker:what's long been considered.
Speaker:I, I think of as like the holy grail in publishing and that's combining
Speaker:the reach and the pizazz and the influence of consumer media with
Speaker:the stability and frankly, better economics of a trade publication.
Speaker:And this is really difficult to do, but it's the political model, at
Speaker:least that's how I think about it.
Speaker:And that's to serve a professional audience with high value
Speaker:intelligence, but package it.
Speaker:With enough punch, and consumer appeal to build mainstream relevance.
Speaker:And you know, I saw this attempt, to chase this firsthand when I was at Adweek.
Speaker:You know, our private equity owners brought in Michael Wolf to inject
Speaker:that consumer heat into a B2B brand.
Speaker:It didn't work.
Speaker:not because the models flawed though, at least that was my conclusion.
Speaker:But because it needs the right context and the right asset,
Speaker:you're not gonna pull this off.
Speaker:In with like a utilities publication or, or a waste management publication.
Speaker:But you can in other areas, Hollywood for sure.
Speaker:Politics, I mean, Politico music, you know, billboard has done this.
Speaker:sports, I think, you know, there's, there's definitely an audience there that
Speaker:care, that cares about both the business.
Speaker:and, you know, the overall.
Speaker:Sort of cultural, cultural aspect to it.
Speaker:So we get into how variety navigates that overlap.
Speaker:Cynthia and Ramin, talk about running, you know, what's a high metabolism
Speaker:newsroom that breaks industry news.
Speaker:And while also, you know, building these franchises, like actors on actors and
Speaker:they share how variety has expanded, well beyond print because, you know,
Speaker:text is, in a tough place right now.
Speaker:and also like expanded their own coverage area, right?
Speaker:So Hollywood itself is going through a, bit of an existential
Speaker:crisis, like many, many industries right now, particularly in media.
Speaker:and so they've expanded into video games and creator coverage, but it,
Speaker:it is a fine line, which we discussed about staying true to your roots.
Speaker:that is in the professional entertainment industry.
Speaker:While also expanding because entertainment is like any part of
Speaker:media, completely decentralized now.
Speaker:And so we discussed, you know, how they're still heavily invested in print, and also
Speaker:in the craft, behind making entertainment.
Speaker:But at the same time, they're, they're gonna be modernizing the brand both in
Speaker:their coverage areas and in how they distribute and make their content.
Speaker:You know, but like any ma modern publisher, variety is
Speaker:vulnerable to traffic disruption.
Speaker:We talk about that.
Speaker:and you know, that in many ways is the paradox.
Speaker:You know, if you're going to be in the consumer sector, you're inevitably.
Speaker:At least in the past, you were gonna get pulled into being traffic driven.
Speaker:and that leaves you exposed, to the different algorithmic, changes
Speaker:that we are seeing right now.
Speaker:So we discussed all of that in this conversation.
Speaker:Really enjoyed it.
Speaker:I'd love to get into the details, particularly around P two B, so
Speaker:hope you enjoy this now onto the conversation with Cynthia and Rummy.
Speaker:all right.
Speaker:We'll just get right into it.
Speaker:Cynthia and Ramin, thank you for joining me.
Speaker:I usually do one-on-one podcasts, but then you're co-editors and
Speaker:chiefs, so like, you know, I wanna
Speaker:We are two for the price of one, so you have to get both of us in here.
Speaker:Exactly.
Speaker:tell me about how that is, first of all.
Speaker:I've been an editor in chief.
Speaker:I've never been a co-editors in chief.
Speaker:Like, it seems like it could be a very modern like approach.
Speaker:but I'm interested in how, how it actually works
Speaker:It's actually an incredible relationship for us.
Speaker:I'm based in New York, Cynthia's based in la we talk throughout the day.
Speaker:I am on Eastern Standard Time, so I get to talk, to our European
Speaker:correspondents and our journalists around the world a little bit easier
Speaker:'cause of the time zone difference.
Speaker:Cynthia's in LA so she's online longer, into the night, later into the day.
Speaker:And, we really.
Speaker:love working together.
Speaker:We really, really respect each other.
Speaker:We talk throughout the day about coverage and how we wanna approach a story, and
Speaker:we're really proud of where variety is.
Speaker:We're celebrating our hundred 20th birthday this year.
Speaker:We have been the number one site covering the business of Hollywood for three
Speaker:consecutive years, according to comScore.
Speaker:That's 36 months in a row of being number one.
Speaker:We're very proud of that statistic and, we're at a really great place right now
Speaker:as a newsroom, as a brand, in our events business and in our video production.
Speaker:Yeah, so Cindy, tell me, how do you divide up like duties beyond the like time zones?
Speaker:Thank you.
Speaker:I just want to just sort of reinforce that, completely cosign
Speaker:with everything Ramin said.
Speaker:I don't know how you would do this job as one person.
Speaker:I think it would be impossible.
Speaker:There is so much that we juggle between breaking News magazine
Speaker:features, video, live events.
Speaker:Our scope is enormous and what's been.
Speaker:Fantastic about this partnership.
Speaker:Absolutely.
Speaker:The best sort, you know, senior management partnership that I've ever had is that
Speaker:we have incredibly complimentary skills.
Speaker:We have, my background is very much Hollywood.
Speaker:I grew up as a journalist at the trades.
Speaker:I very much know this town and this an the animal of entertainment.
Speaker:I know, I know the wonky stuff really well.
Speaker:Ramin grew up in the Newsweek world of New York magazines.
Speaker:He knows that world well.
Speaker:He knows everybody who, if you need to get a star somewhere in
Speaker:front of a camera or accepting an award, Ramin Setoodeh is your guy.
Speaker:He knows everybody.
Speaker:He knows he has those connections.
Speaker:It's just you couldn't.
Speaker:You couldn't have designed a better, more complimentary fit of people and skills.
Speaker:And I will say the benefit, we had the benefit of being peers for a
Speaker:long time in New York, and we had the benefit of becoming friends.
Speaker:I have a great deal of respect for Ramin, and I feel it coming back to me every day.
Speaker:It's a, it's a truly fantastic partnership.
Speaker:And, and, and by respecting each other, we're able to run Variety as one cohesive
Speaker:newsroom, which is really important.
Speaker:I think that's a really important leadership lesson because, you know,
Speaker:obviously we're working in a very fast paced environment and there's a lot of
Speaker:quick decisions that have to be made.
Speaker:But because we work together so closely, we're able to manage
Speaker:our newsroom as one cohesive newsroom, which is really important.
Speaker:Yeah, so let's get into like where the, the brand is now, because I feel
Speaker:like every brand needs to like sort of.
Speaker:I don't wanna say I have some identity crisis, but like you, you know, every,
Speaker:everything is in flux right now.
Speaker:And I don't mean that as just like a cliche.
Speaker:I think it truly is.
Speaker:Really.
Speaker:but I'm interested like, because I mean, you guys are historically a
Speaker:Hollywood trade and the trades for those who are not like in the sort of
Speaker:Hollywood and Hollywood adjacents world, it's like it's a particular animal.
Speaker:So like, Cynthia, maybe you can, 'cause you've got a lot of experience, like
Speaker:you talked about the trades because it's a totally different world.
Speaker:I would always be struck with it.
Speaker:I was, I worked at like Adweek for like years and it was,
Speaker:it's a totally different world.
Speaker:We dealt with PR people, you deal with publicists, like the
Speaker:two worlds are very different.
Speaker:And then there was always this long history of the trades being like in
Speaker:war with each other, over like what to the outside, where we're like pretty
Speaker:small things, but like I appreciated the, the energy that was brought, but
Speaker:need to know what director is attached to the next iteration
Speaker:of Spider-Man or whatever.
Speaker:This is all, you know it, it's very interesting stuff.
Speaker:It's stuff that people obsess about, but fundamentally what we cover is business
Speaker:intelligence for people in the business of making, distributing, marketing,
Speaker:promoting content, starring in it.
Speaker:And all the attendant business, but it all, the, the core
Speaker:is the business of content.
Speaker:And that, it took me a long time to embrace the word content, but I finally
Speaker:gave in, and it is, it is content because used to be able to film and tv, but
Speaker:now it's, it's so much more than that.
Speaker:It's social, it's podcasting, it's audio, it's it's gaming.
Speaker:It's just, you know, there's so many things that we cover, for our brand.
Speaker:I think certainly the big, you know, for the, the biggest, the biggest,
Speaker:most fundamental change of course was, you know, we're 120 years old,
Speaker:so we've been around a long time.
Speaker:The biggest, most fundamental change was the internet when, you know it came along.
Speaker:We were a brand that was known in New York and Los Angeles.
Speaker:To entertainment professionals overseas.
Speaker:'cause we had a special edition, a weekly edition that would go overseas
Speaker:and go into the middle of the country.
Speaker:But for, you know, for 85 years, we were a daily newspaper Monday through Friday that
Speaker:was available in Los Angeles and New York.
Speaker:and so that, you know, that was very limited.
Speaker:We have, we're our because of what, because of the business we cover
Speaker:and because we've been around so long and because we're, we're.
Speaker:Awfully charming.
Speaker:especially in a, you know, we're, we are an awfully charming, we're a very
Speaker:irreverent brand, but we were just not.
Speaker:So, we were, we were known.
Speaker:People knew variety, but they didn't have the chance to
Speaker:read it, to interact with it.
Speaker:About 25 years ago, the internet came along and changed everything.
Speaker:And now our brand is Absolutely.
Speaker:And now I'm gonna just completely unabashedly sound like a
Speaker:PR person, but our brand is synonymous with, that's right.
Speaker:S um, excuse me.
Speaker:No comms professional.
Speaker:The word comms, I never heard it for till about four years ago.
Speaker:Now everybody
Speaker:you use comms, it means you have to be across things.
Speaker:I think.
Speaker:But now we, because, so now every people can interact.
Speaker:We're on the, we're online.
Speaker:People know us.
Speaker:They have be.
Speaker:We are now very well known for independence authority.
Speaker:A bit of irreverence because we cover a fascinating business, but we
Speaker:cover, we talk to the most creative, the most innovative people in the
Speaker:world doing world culture, shaking.
Speaker:Business.
Speaker:It's, it's, it's a lot sexier than aerospace or, or insurance
Speaker:or anything like that.
Speaker:And that has, so that alone, that exposure has widened the world of variety beyond
Speaker:anything that Simon Silverman, our dear founder, could have possibly imagined.
Speaker:Yeah.
Speaker:Rami, do you wanna jump in there?
Speaker:Because I'm interested in, in you coming from like, you know, Newsweek
Speaker:and those kind of magazines, like how you view this, because.
Speaker:Hollywood was always thought of the trades, right?
Speaker:Like, like I don't think a variety as like a trade publication.
Speaker:Like yes, people use it for intelligence to do their work,
Speaker:but just by nature of being in.
Speaker:the industry of like entertainment, it is gonna have heat far beyond
Speaker:what say ad exchanger will have.
Speaker:You know, I mean, that's like, it's about ad tech, right?
Speaker:Like, and you're gonna stay in that lane.
Speaker:It's, this is not going to be something that, you walk down the street and
Speaker:people, necessarily, know about.
Speaker:And so I think it, to me, there's a lot of similarities to, on the other side, like
Speaker:of the coast, To like Politico, right?
Speaker:Like where the sort of trades in Washington DC were just like that.
Speaker:The hill and roll call were dropped off at, at, legislative
Speaker:offices and they were very, I would say, sleepy businesses, right?
Speaker:And like the internet changed all of that.
Speaker:And then Politico came on the scene and they were saying, Hey,
Speaker:we can have a high metabolism, news operation that has consumer reach.
Speaker:But has a B2B type of business model.
Speaker:how, how do you sort of see where variety sits within sort
Speaker:of the, the media ecosystem?
Speaker:I think that's a.
Speaker:it's easy to, to pigeonhole exactly.
Speaker:I think that's a really important question.
Speaker:Really interesting question.
Speaker:And I think what's happened, as someone who's been in magazines my entire life, my
Speaker:entire career as a very young journalist, is that the audience, and the consumer
Speaker:audience has gotten a lot smarter.
Speaker:And they are interested in the business of Hollywood.
Speaker:They are interested in what's happening behind the scenes.
Speaker:They're much more savvy and much more informed about, the way
Speaker:in which movies are produced.
Speaker:And they wanna know the B2B story about their favorite Blockbuster, their favorite
Speaker:action star, their favorite, independent movie, their favorite television series.
Speaker:Showrunners are all known by the masses.
Speaker:Everyone knows about Mike White and what he did with the White Lotus.
Speaker:And I think there's a really unique opportunity for us, which we've
Speaker:been very, very excited about.
Speaker:To reach millions and millions of readers around the world.
Speaker:Variety has never been bigger in its 120 years.
Speaker:We are so proud under the ownership of Jay Penske.
Speaker:For the last 13 years, we've had a glossy magazine.
Speaker:So we come out once a week instead of every day as a newspaper.
Speaker:We've invested in photography, we've invested in long form video.
Speaker:When I talk to journals and students, they're all aware of
Speaker:actors on actors, which is our, one of our banner video series.
Speaker:They're aware of Power of Women, which is one of our banner events
Speaker:that we do honoring, women in the entertainment industry who use.
Speaker:Philanthropy, and use their spotlight for philanthropy.
Speaker:they're aware of Hit Makers, which is a big music franchise that we do.
Speaker:And so we are in a very unique time right now, and I'm, we're really proud
Speaker:of our newsroom for being able to execute and to be firing in all cylinders.
Speaker:But the idea has been that we've expanded and we've grown, and we are a modern
Speaker:newsroom, and we tell stories on.
Speaker:Multiple platforms.
Speaker:We tell stories in print.
Speaker:We tell stories digitally.
Speaker:We tell stories through video.
Speaker:We tell stories through our events, and it really is important for us
Speaker:to be, a news organization that emphasizes storytelling, unique
Speaker:storytelling, undeniable storytelling.
Speaker:We like to be best.
Speaker:We like to be first.
Speaker:We're very aggressive.
Speaker:We're very competitive, and we are really, really proud of the product
Speaker:that we create day in and day out.
Speaker:Yeah.
Speaker:Cynthia, do you wanna just jump in about the, the competitive landscape, because.
Speaker:I mean, it, it's always been fiercely competitive, like among the trades,
Speaker:like I mentioned, and, and some of them are, like, several of them are
Speaker:now like sister companies, but they're still, they're still enemies, right?
Speaker:They're,
Speaker:it, the
Speaker:you're still compete,
Speaker:Yeah.
Speaker:The consolidation that we cover.
Speaker:I've, from the time I started about 30 years ago, the story of entertainment
Speaker:has been the story of consolidation, mergers and acquisitions, Disney
Speaker:buying A, B, C, you know, all.
Speaker:Just the, the, the shape of the business that we know today really
Speaker:did start about 30 years ago when there was a whole bunch of regulatory
Speaker:changes that kind of catalyzed a lot of, a lot of, m and a activity.
Speaker:And so, so, but, and consolidation in media.
Speaker:So in, in the.
Speaker:We are not immune to the, to the forces that we cover.
Speaker:And so we're, we're hitting that.
Speaker:But, but historically I am actually, it's you, it, it was fiercely competitive
Speaker:variety in the Hollywood reporter.
Speaker:It was a great, I am actually very happy that I had the opportunity to kind of.
Speaker:Grow up in that time when it was fiercely competitive.
Speaker:It was old fashioned newspaper competitive.
Speaker:You, you held your breath and looked at your competition the next morning
Speaker:to see what did they have, did they have a better story than you?
Speaker:And I feel very, you know, sort of fit to judge.
Speaker:'cause I worked for Variety.
Speaker:Then I went across the street for Hollywood Reporter
Speaker:for a few years and then.
Speaker:Came back across the street to Variety.
Speaker:So I've, I've seen both brands, you know, in that old heyday of being dailies
Speaker:and it was different than the internet because now you have a big story.
Speaker:People can, it's very easy for other, other outlets to match it.
Speaker:Variety does that.
Speaker:We break a lot of our own news, but we also, obviously people break news.
Speaker:We follow it.
Speaker:It's different.
Speaker:When it was in print, you couldn't, you, you couldn't, you couldn't match it.
Speaker:It was there and it, it, it kind, you know, it, it's, if you had that, if
Speaker:you had that exclusive story, only you had that exclusive story all day.
Speaker:If you had a mistake on page one, it also sat there and, and, and waved at
Speaker:you all day and made you feel terrible.
Speaker:But, but there was nothing like breaking news.
Speaker:Back then, there was nothing like walking into the four Seasons and
Speaker:seeing daily variety on the table and you knew you had a big story.
Speaker:You kind of would just strut into the ballroom.
Speaker:Obviously the internet has changed all of that, but that tempo of
Speaker:the competition and it was fierce, absolutely fierce that tempo.
Speaker:I'm very fortunate to kind of have that and I, you really just
Speaker:want to, I think journalists, many journalists by nature are competitive
Speaker:and that competition really drives.
Speaker:It can drive bad behavior, but if you, if you use it right, it can make you,
Speaker:it can make you really aggressive and you're pushing, and readers are the
Speaker:better for two publications that have a certain amount of competition, you're
Speaker:gonna, you're gonna really jockey to do the best job and do the best
Speaker:journalism that you can to remains point.
Speaker:That has also, I mean.
Speaker:Well, we'll talk about the changes, but one of the changes in, in the,
Speaker:the scope and the way we write has changed enormously, and that's also
Speaker:obviously changed the skills of the journalists on our masthead that we need.
Speaker:but how do you think of the, the sort of differentiation in a pretty crowded area?
Speaker:I mean, there's, there's you guys, there's Hollywood reporter,
Speaker:there's deadline, there's the rap.
Speaker:There's, now there's the ankle, now a Janice Min on this podcast.
Speaker:She took a little shot at at at you guys.
Speaker:But that's part of the, I think that's part of the back and forth in this field.
Speaker:I feel like,
Speaker:We don't, so, so we don't.
Speaker:in there.
Speaker:In all, in all seriousness, we don't look at the anchor as a publication
Speaker:that is similar to Variety.
Speaker:An Anchor is a niche newsletter that reaches a small audience.
Speaker:We reach millions and millions of readers around the world.
Speaker:We have a video, team that reaches millions and millions
Speaker:of viewers around the world.
Speaker:We are a large news organization, but to your question,
Speaker:I like it.
Speaker:A little counter punch.
Speaker:I like it.
Speaker:Ram,
Speaker:But to your question, I personally think that competition is good for us.
Speaker:I came up in the weekly news magazine world with Newsweek and Time.
Speaker:We would go head to head every week, and once Newsweek, you know, became a
Speaker:diminished version of itself, so did time.
Speaker:So I think having variety and the hard reporter and deadline competing
Speaker:against each other makes all of our journalists operate on their A game.
Speaker:And I think it's good for the industry and it's good for journalism.
Speaker:Yeah, so go ahead,
Speaker:know, the only brand that we run is ours, and that is the only brand
Speaker:that Romine and I run is Variety.
Speaker:And that's what we focus on making as absolutely good as possible.
Speaker:So let's talk about that.
Speaker:and I always thought of variety.
Speaker:I mean, you guys always have done really well on the traffic front.
Speaker:Right.
Speaker:Like, you get a, you get a lot of like traffic and that's become
Speaker:harder to do, I think here.
Speaker:Traffic numbers, I think that they've mostly held up, but how are you
Speaker:thinking about your output then when A lot of people, honestly, who I talk
Speaker:to, publishers are moving away from.
Speaker:From traffic based models.
Speaker:They're trying to, and I know it's just one part of the business, but I
Speaker:don't wanna talk about that part of the business and then we'll talk about the
Speaker:others, is they're trying to move more towards like events and having direct
Speaker:relationships and driving down this, and that's a different business really
Speaker:than the traffic, because traffic is.
Speaker:You gotta have a high metabolism, you gotta produce in a lot of content.
Speaker:You're gonna have, you're gonna be monetizing a lot of times through
Speaker:programmatic placements, and you're gonna be very reliant on
Speaker:search and other indirect sources.
Speaker:and it is a different, it's, it's a different, business.
Speaker:How are you thinking about where that fits in the business now and, and
Speaker:where things are going when you see, you know, AI overviews, et cetera.
Speaker:Well, we're a news organization, right?
Speaker:So you talk about traffic, but our traffic comes from news.
Speaker:People come to variety because they're trying to learn what's happening in the
Speaker:world of entertainment and media and in TV and in film and on stage in Broadway.
Speaker:And they come to us because they know we have the latest information
Speaker:on what they're passionate about and what they care about.
Speaker:And when news breaks, it's really important for us to
Speaker:be on top of that story.
Speaker:And our journalists know that.
Speaker:They're aware of that.
Speaker:They're great at doing that.
Speaker:They're the best in the business.
Speaker:Is doing that.
Speaker:And so when you talk about traffic, it's a reflection for
Speaker:us of the quality of our work.
Speaker:We're not in the business of clickbait, we're not in the business of aggregating
Speaker:stories just for the sake of aggregating.
Speaker:We wanna provide our readers with the complete picture of what's happening
Speaker:in the entertainment industry.
Speaker:and so some of those other brands and organizations that are scaling
Speaker:back from covering news and offering good journalism to their readers
Speaker:are doing it at their own peril.
Speaker:For us, our philosophy has always been be great journalists.
Speaker:Exercise, great journalism, create great journalism, and the audience
Speaker:obviously follows, but it also leads to other avenues of really interesting
Speaker:storytelling, whether it be events, video, our international coverage at
Speaker:film festivals, real time coverage.
Speaker:It's really important for us to be on top of every big story and even
Speaker:stories that aren't big interesting features, having conversations with,
Speaker:the most important people in the film industry and TV industry, and the,
Speaker:the, the captains of our industry.
Speaker:We want everyone to talk to variety, and we wanna be the go-to place for coverage,
Speaker:and we've been able to accomplish that.
Speaker:We're very proud of that.
Speaker:I'll give you, I'll give you an example.
Speaker:We recently had Apple, CEO, Tim Cook and Louis Hamilton Formula fa fabulous
Speaker:Formula one raced race car driver.
Speaker:You know, we had them on the cover.
Speaker:And that was the result of, you know, literally 10 years of, of, of building
Speaker:a relationship with Apple on a level that, you know, just to even, just
Speaker:to even get near something like that.
Speaker:'cause they don't, you know, he does, Tim Cook does not, does not talk
Speaker:to, you know, does Tim Cook does not do a whole lot of press every year.
Speaker:And so we felt, and it obviously it was a moment in time for them and we were
Speaker:so happy that Variety was the place when they had a big movie that they
Speaker:wanted to talk about a big initiative.
Speaker:Fact and talking.
Speaker:Talking for the first time at at length that they had not before,
Speaker:talking about their Apple TV plus business, their streaming business.
Speaker:We were incr.
Speaker:We were incredibly proud that we were the place that they wanted to tell that story.
Speaker:And so.
Speaker:We, you know, we do everything from, you know, something at that,
Speaker:at that level of, you know, 3,500 word story take out on Apple.
Speaker:And we also, very, very important sometimes are two sentence items about
Speaker:somebody has just gotten the new job as head of marketing at this new platform.
Speaker:And that can spark a business deal from somebody else reading
Speaker:that, oh, I need to do something.
Speaker:That's the connectivity.
Speaker:So we want, at the 30,000 foot view, we wanna go in, in literally
Speaker:into Cupertino in one of the.
Speaker:One of the, you know, richest and most kind of, exclusive companies in the world.
Speaker:And we also still want to let you know who's going from senior VP to exec, vp.
Speaker:'cause all, both of those things are really important and they're,
Speaker:and they're all in our wheelhouse in a way that, that just.
Speaker:Gives us a, gives us a, a prism for what we wanna focus on, and
Speaker:every single day there's way more stories than we can get to.
Speaker:There is so much going on in the marketplace right now.
Speaker:So it's all about curation and selection and judgment.
Speaker:So, I mean, I, I, I know when we talk about content, it's a whole variety.
Speaker:And so I, I think what I was referring to is not the 3,500 word, article.
Speaker:It's the quick hit pieces, the high metabolism pieces that you
Speaker:probably publish hundreds a day.
Speaker:So that is still like an important part of the model is what I'm getting from me.
Speaker:Oh, absolutely.
Speaker:And our readers like to follow the news and they read the, the, they read the long
Speaker:form story and they read the, the shorter
Speaker:so you're seeing traffic hold up just fine.
Speaker:It's growing.
Speaker:For us, it's been a, a story of growth and we're really proud of that.
Speaker:I'm very excited about that.
Speaker:And also the other thing that we're really excited and proud about is
Speaker:the fact that we get to come out every week with a weekly magazine.
Speaker:There are so few news organizations that have the privilege to do that.
Speaker:And so we really, really do invest in print and we're very,
Speaker:very proud of our print product.
Speaker:We were just doing a shoot, with a showrunner who was talking about how
Speaker:excited she was about being in Variety.
Speaker:That was the one publication she wanted to be in.
Speaker:And when someone says that, that's really just.
Speaker:That warms our hearts.
Speaker:That's what we want.
Speaker:We want variety to be the go-to destination for, the town.
Speaker:And we want everyone to want to be in variety,
Speaker:Yeah.
Speaker:And the role of the, the magazine now is different than it was before, right?
Speaker:Like it's, it's.
Speaker:I mean, I assume you build like a
Speaker:more
Speaker:it's like a branding moment and you build things around it a lot of times.
Speaker:Yeah.
Speaker:I was just gonna say the print magazine is more precious than ever before.
Speaker:As more and more go out of, go out of print, it says so much about our
Speaker:audience and how much they love us.
Speaker:See for Scene of the studio, it says so much about.
Speaker:Our audience, how much they love us that they actually embrace.
Speaker:We do more.
Speaker:We do a weekly magazine, you know, most weeks of the year.
Speaker:We take very few weeks.
Speaker:We also do extra editions at film festivals.
Speaker:We are actually at a time when print is receding.
Speaker:We are probably one of the biggest purveyors of print.
Speaker:We do dedicated show dailies at certain festivals.
Speaker:We do standalone issues.
Speaker:We, Hollywood is the business of Hollywood.
Speaker:The people that run Hollywood.
Speaker:They love print because they love visuals.
Speaker:These are the most visual people in the world, and thanks to Ramin and all
Speaker:of that, all of that sort of magazine intelligence that we didn't have.
Speaker:We knew how to cover Hollywood, but we didn't have the magazine intelligence
Speaker:and that, and it didn't happen overnight.
Speaker:Jay Penske bought us in the end of 2012.
Speaker:We are transitioned from going, you know, the last daily variety
Speaker:went out the door somewhere in March, I wanna say March of 2013.
Speaker:At the end of that month, our first issue was the new head of
Speaker:Warner Brothers on the cover.
Speaker:I mean, that couldn't been, couldn't have been more in varieties wheelhouse.
Speaker:And, but from there it has been, I mean, it is fine tuning literally every week
Speaker:you, we finally get a good one and we say, great, let's make a hundred more of these.
Speaker:But no, we're starting like a ma as the magazine business.
Speaker:You are starting again from scratch.
Speaker:I, I can't reinforce enough that we are a 24 7 digital brand.
Speaker:We do have a high metabolism, but we don't do, we respect our readers,
Speaker:we don't do the empty calorie stories, anything that we do.
Speaker:Is gonna have some larger, some either.
Speaker:Either.
Speaker:Just something interesting.
Speaker:Oh, I didn't know Anne Hathaway was thinking that.
Speaker:Or some actionable, something that will tell you something about our business
Speaker:that is on, on virtually everything we do that is the, that is the North Star.
Speaker:Sometimes we just have fun, but virtually everything else is
Speaker:about business intelligence.
Speaker:I can't stress that enough because that's our guiding light.
Speaker:Right,
Speaker:was referring to the studio in the first episode when Seth Rogan gets
Speaker:promoted to the studio chief, Catherine Hahn, who's the publicist at the
Speaker:studio says, you set this in your interview with Variety and that's.
Speaker:Really, really, really what we want
Speaker:And he holds it up.
Speaker:We want people to come to Variety for their first interview and for their
Speaker:interviews throughout their careers.
Speaker:It's really important for us to be interviewing, studio heads and leaders
Speaker:in the industry, and getting their vision and their story and what it they want
Speaker:to do with the roles that they have.
Speaker:And content is so multi-platform and it is.
Speaker:It is such an, an area that touches on everything.
Speaker:It touches on tech, it touches on sports, it touches, you know, we were
Speaker:in Cannes Lion, we could see the ways in which different brands are integrating
Speaker:content and telling their own stories.
Speaker:And so for us to, to be the journalist on the ground, making sense of all
Speaker:this, everything that's happening is really, really important to variety.
Speaker:I'm interested in how you think about franchises, right?
Speaker:Because I think about a lot of these publications, you know, they're
Speaker:brands at the end of the day and you express a brand in a variety
Speaker:of different ways, so to speak, in a bunch of different ways, right?
Speaker:And so whether you start as a magazine or a.
Speaker:Or a trade a daily, like, you're gonna express it in a
Speaker:whole bunch of different ways.
Speaker:And I think to your point, like with like, you know, the anchor, they're,
Speaker:they're not, they're not doing it in all the different ways that, that you are.
Speaker:Right.
Speaker:and so talk to me about developing, you know, franchises, like
Speaker:actors on an actors and others.
Speaker:So I think actors on actors is a really great example because
Speaker:it's a brand within a brand.
Speaker:It's now become so big that people just know it as actors on actors and they
Speaker:know their variety does it, but they, are very excited to watch the conversations.
Speaker:The conversations also run in print.
Speaker:We do a photo shoot, the lives on TikTok, and on Instagram.
Speaker:And I think one of the reasons why it's such a successful
Speaker:franchise for us is that it is a multi-platform series that lives in.
Speaker:All these different places and also creates conversation, which is what
Speaker:you always wanna do with the magazine.
Speaker:You wanna be leading the conversation.
Speaker:And so when we were able to get, you know.
Speaker:Barb Heimer, that that was one of their biggest pairing.
Speaker:We got Margot Robbie and Killian Murphy together in real life for the first
Speaker:time, since Oppenheimer and Barbie opened, talking about the biggest
Speaker:box office phenomenon of the year.
Speaker:That was a conversation that everyone watched and consumed
Speaker:and, you know, commented on on YouTube and commented on on TikTok.
Speaker:And so for us creating franchises, when we look to create franchises,
Speaker:it's really important for us to.
Speaker:Have a voice in the community and also have a voice in our storytelling that
Speaker:is distinct, unique, and the best.
Speaker:Yeah.
Speaker:And Cynthia, how do you see that sort of fitting into like
Speaker:the overall editorial DNA?
Speaker:Oh, it's fan.
Speaker:I mean, it's, it's, there are tent poles, basically they are the
Speaker:tent poles kind of, of our year.
Speaker:We know that we're gonna have a certain amount of, big, glossy events
Speaker:that are truly, truly 360 events.
Speaker:They're print, they're digital, they're video.
Speaker:They are a. Big, big live event that then generates more print, digital video.
Speaker:It's a, it's an ecosystem.
Speaker:It really is.
Speaker:Power of women is another good example.
Speaker:We expanded power of power of women.
Speaker:Is a, is a philanthropic venture where we honor people that have done incredible
Speaker:work with charities and in, in the honoring we raise money for charities.
Speaker:So it really, there's a, the great virtuous cycle with that.
Speaker:We, we expanded that to Nashville this year because there's a lot
Speaker:of demand for, you know, there's a lot of incredible country.
Speaker:Women both in the business of Nashville, the talent, and is
Speaker:obviously incredible there.
Speaker:We had, I mean, we had Reba McIntyre, Kelsey Ballerini,
Speaker:Mickey Guy and, and Cheryl Crow.
Speaker:I mean, it was, it was an absolute incredible lineup and most heartening
Speaker:I think was when we got there.
Speaker:Oh my God.
Speaker:They were so excited to be there for variety.
Speaker:They.
Speaker:They people thanked us for bringing variety, for bringing kind of our glow and
Speaker:our level of authority that you sort of, you've made it in show business and that,
Speaker:you know, I mean, Reba McIntyre doesn't need us, but it, but it really, really.
Speaker:Meant a lot to us.
Speaker:And I also learned, I had no idea how many people from Los
Speaker:Angeles have moved to Nashville.
Speaker:So many people I know from the industry were coming up and saying
Speaker:hi, and I was surprised to see them.
Speaker:Oh yeah, I moved here a couple years ago.
Speaker:I mean, it's really, really been, so that's another
Speaker:interesting thing that's a pocket.
Speaker:There's a clear entertainment hub is is building in Tennessee and we're there
Speaker:just like, we cover Atlanta more than we ever used to because it's a very
Speaker:big entertainment content hub now.
Speaker:That's something I wanna, I want to get into.
Speaker:It's a great segue, Cynthia.
Speaker:Thank you.
Speaker:which is, you know, the, the industry that you're covering, I mean, the entertainment
Speaker:industry is not Hollywood really anymore.
Speaker:I mean, it's, it's far broader, it's, it's more global.
Speaker:it, Hollywood in quotes itself is going through a little bit of, I don't
Speaker:wanna say it's an existential crisis.
Speaker:I don't know what it's going through, but like, you know,
Speaker:more than a little bit I, I.
Speaker:Okay, there you're closer to like, tell me about it.
Speaker:'cause like the culture has changed, right?
Speaker:Like I'm amazed.
Speaker:I was like reading that like an economist, like last night, like an an old one
Speaker:and it was like talking about this uk, this 12-year-old, like Ukrainian,
Speaker:who has a massive media and empire.
Speaker:That, you know, sh that her, well, her parents have like really
Speaker:built, I guess she built it too.
Speaker:and I'd never heard of this person before and I feel like there, I, I don't think
Speaker:I should have heard it before because she's for like, you know, pre-teen kids.
Speaker:So it'd be weird if I had heard of them.
Speaker:But the point is never before I feel like have there been more people
Speaker:famous that nobody has ever heard of.
Speaker:Like, it's completely decentralized.
Speaker:It's not like it's just Brad Pitt and stuff.
Speaker:Yes.
Speaker:There, there's, there's the George Clooneys and the Brad Pitts, and
Speaker:they're all getting like older, but like with, particularly with YouTube
Speaker:being the center of, of culture for a lot of young people, I don't know.
Speaker:To me it's just like.
Speaker:What, where is this moment for the industry you're covering?
Speaker:'cause I think then it like, sort of reflects on where, where you go.
Speaker:'cause it's not just about the movie stars anymore.
Speaker:These influencers on YouTube have probably more influence in, in some ways,
Speaker:particularly among, you know, in their niches than, than any of these stars do.
Speaker:Actually, I don't, I don't subscribe to that.
Speaker:And I think this is a really interesting conversation to
Speaker:have, and I'm glad you're asking.
Speaker:But I think that what you're describing is obviously the social media revolution,
Speaker:allowed fame to be democratized, right?
Speaker:So anyone could be famous.
Speaker:So we had reality tv, we had social media, we had the rise of TikTok.
Speaker:And, I think fame is different than stardom, right?
Speaker:And so the heart and soul of the film industry is still in Hollywood.
Speaker:It's still being green lit in Hollywood.
Speaker:The stories are still being told in Hollywood.
Speaker:What Brad Pitt does with F1 on the big screen is so different than
Speaker:what an influencer can do or a TikTok star can do, and that fame
Speaker:doesn't translate to the movies.
Speaker:You can see that many influencers have tried to launch film careers or TV
Speaker:careers, and very few have made it.
Speaker:And so I think what you're describing is
Speaker:Well, they're different.
Speaker:I mean.
Speaker:Is all
Speaker:very different.
Speaker:Because I think the old way was, well, YouTube and stuff is the
Speaker:minor leagues, and if you're gonna be in the major leagues, you're
Speaker:gonna need to do like scripted.
Speaker:You're gonna to need to do movies.
Speaker:Well, guess what, Mr. Beast, like I don't care if he ever does, does, does movies.
Speaker:He's got a great business.
Speaker:It's better than most Hollywood businesses.
Speaker:So like you're competing at the end of the day for people's time and attention.
Speaker:And the fact of the matter is that's all being leaked out.
Speaker:I mean, we're seeing this all through media to a lot of this in this
Speaker:decentralized and for entertainment.
Speaker:To me it's like the heart of it is YouTube and then, and then also TikTok.
Speaker:I think, I mean, I, I think that there's such an interesting, you know,
Speaker:it is such an interesting moment.
Speaker:'cause yeah, there's no question people can bubble up almost outta nowhere and
Speaker:in a, in a week everybody's saying, oh yeah, you've seen, you know.
Speaker:But, I think.
Speaker:There because you can, because everybody has a megaphone and because
Speaker:there's so many more avenues, the, it actually makes the real stars.
Speaker:The Brad Pitts the indelible stars and the indelible franchises, like
Speaker:The Stranger Things, the White Lotus.
Speaker:There's, there's a, there's a new breed of, of shows, of movies that play on a
Speaker:global level like we've never seen before, sort of erased borders and entertainment.
Speaker:Netflix, apple, Amazon.
Speaker:You know, Disney plus, like they, they play now at a global
Speaker:entertainment, actually used to be very, very geographically bound.
Speaker:You know, you put a movie or TV show came out in the States, it would be exported
Speaker:overseas in a certain amount of time.
Speaker:Usually not simultaneously, you know, all that has changed.
Speaker:I think that the, the, the growth of sort of the grassroots level stars and,
Speaker:and you know, stars that can bubble up.
Speaker:Bubble up outta nowhere are tho those can be real careers.
Speaker:You, you, you know, 'cause we are covering much more that the creator economy.
Speaker:And the one thing, you talk to people, you talk to talent agents that work
Speaker:in this space and they say, I used to have to hustle to get my TV writer
Speaker:three jobs a year with my influencers.
Speaker:I gotta get them 50 to 60 jobs a year.
Speaker:It's really all changing.
Speaker:But the so, but, so the, the, you know, the F1 movie that can go and
Speaker:draw people around the world like that, you're not gonna get that.
Speaker:I'm not saying that no TikTok or will ever get there, but you're
Speaker:not gonna get that from TikTok now.
Speaker:And I just, I can't resist the opportunity.
Speaker:You talk about YouTube, we have been covering YouTube since it, since
Speaker:before it started, but to show how all roads lead through YouTube, we had.
Speaker:YouTube, CEO, Neil Mohan on our cover in March and we launched, if
Speaker:you go back, the record is clear.
Speaker:The whole push for YouTube at 20 started with variety, and that was because.
Speaker:we were sitting around sometime last year and going, Hey, YouTube's about to hit 20.
Speaker:And we thought that really made us step back and pursue that
Speaker:interview that didn't, that didn't, wasn't handed to us in our lap.
Speaker:We really had to pursue that.
Speaker:And I am, again, going back to proud.
Speaker:We're 120 years old, but we are not missing this moment.
Speaker:And, and knowing that our.
Speaker:Core readers who are in the business of making the high-end movies and TV
Speaker:shows, they need to hear from the CEO of YouTube to understand what's going
Speaker:on in that gigantic sea of content.
Speaker:That is for sure competing with people's discretionary
Speaker:income and, and available time.
Speaker:So what, what, how would Ramin, how would you, how would you describe this
Speaker:sort of like quote unquote existential crisis then for like Hollywood?
Speaker:I mean, 'cause there's a lot of forces that are hitting it, and this
Speaker:is across every, it's not unique.
Speaker:I feel like every industry is in this.
Speaker:I don't know, maybe it's because, like of the media world that I, I feel like every
Speaker:industry is under existential pressure.
Speaker:I mean, you can say that Hollywood is always in crisis and it's always thriving.
Speaker:Movie, movie theaters are doing better this year.
Speaker:I think Sinners is Ryan Kugler's.
Speaker:sinners is an extraordinary success story, right?
Speaker:That is the example of an original story that he wrote himself.
Speaker:He produced himself and worked, on and had.
Speaker:You know, passion Project Warner Brothers believed in his vision.
Speaker:He has ownership in it.
Speaker:It has made more money in the United States than the last
Speaker:Mission Impossible movie.
Speaker:and so I think that you can say there's an existential crisis, but also there's been
Speaker:a lot of success this year in Hollywood and the interest in Hollywood and the.
Speaker:Fascination with Hollywood and the conversation generated by the White
Speaker:Lotus or your hot, water cooler shows is still as high as ever, and social
Speaker:media just feeds into that interest.
Speaker:And I think what Mr. Beast is grading is his own empire.
Speaker:And that's, to me, that is different than what the entertainment industry is
Speaker:because it's very hard to successfully execute a great movie or a great TV show.
Speaker:And at its heart, that is what Hollywood is about.
Speaker:And, I think, you know, the influencer economy is a different business
Speaker:and it is tangentially related to Hollywood, but to me, that isn't
Speaker:Hollywood, that isn't driving Hollywood.
Speaker:Yeah.
Speaker:Not influencers.
Speaker:I mostly meant like creators.
Speaker:So you like are do creators fall into your purview?
Speaker:'cause I think that they're, I understand what you're saying, that they're not
Speaker:directly doing the same things, but like we've seen before with social
Speaker:media, man, they, they took away, they weren't doing the same thing as Newsweek.
Speaker:They weren't doing the same thing as Time Magazine, like, but like the
Speaker:reality is that, all of these forces, you compete with everything and
Speaker:everyone out there, and if you're making movies, you're competing with video
Speaker:games, you're competing with tiktoks.
Speaker:Like that's just a reality.
Speaker:I'm just wondering how you, how, how you end up, you know, figuring
Speaker:out which part of this or all of it you end up focusing on.
Speaker:Oh,
Speaker:I'll give You a good example.
Speaker:Especially coming outta Cannes Lion.
Speaker:We real, it's, it's very clear to me that that the filter, the filter
Speaker:that variety has always used.
Speaker:There's, you know, there's a million actors in Hollywood.
Speaker:We don't cover all of them.
Speaker:We cover the ones that are rising up, that are getting the significant roles, that
Speaker:are getting the deals we are covering.
Speaker:We're covering the creator economy in that lens.
Speaker:Are you doing.
Speaker:Again, our lens is through the business of content, high-end professional content.
Speaker:So as people start to interact, as people start to interact more and
Speaker:more, either with brand deals or do you know influencers, the studios, no
Speaker:question the studios are, are courting influencers because they have audience
Speaker:and the studios wanna want to piggyback on their audience to let them know
Speaker:that sinners is opening on that day and Superman is opening this weekend.
Speaker:The reviews are good.
Speaker:so I, I think that, I think that we, there's natural places for us to plug in
Speaker:there and we are spending a lot of time.
Speaker:Looking at how all of these different things are impacting the,
Speaker:the core business of Hollywood.
Speaker:One huge area of growth for us in the last two years has been video games.
Speaker:We've never covered it really as a business before.
Speaker:Now we have a terrific young writer who is focused, covers the earnings
Speaker:of video games, covers the covers, video game, creative development,
Speaker:release dates, trailer launches.
Speaker:We cover those just like we'd cover a movie or TV show.
Speaker:It's been incredibly.
Speaker:It's been really rewarding and it's, once again, this is an industry is like, oh
Speaker:my God, thank God you're covering us.
Speaker:We're so happy to have a place to talk to professionals, industry professionals
Speaker:about whatever agenda we wanna talk about.
Speaker:And it's been great.
Speaker:We got to know Neil Druckman just in time for the last of us.
Speaker:It's been, it's really been terrific.
Speaker:That is an area, gaming is a huge area where you're seeing so much
Speaker:inter intertwining, quite, you know, and, and, and that world.
Speaker:Gaming then brings in.
Speaker:Huge Venn diagrams of fandom and creator and, you know, it's, it's
Speaker:fascinating and we haven't even touched the technology of it all,
Speaker:Yeah.
Speaker:Okay.
Speaker:So you,
Speaker:art of that
Speaker:yeah.
Speaker:You stay focused on your core, but then the reality is that core, I think
Speaker:this is what I was trying to get on.
Speaker:In a roundabout way, is that core as part of a much larger inco at whole these days?
Speaker:Like when I think about like the information system or the inform,
Speaker:I'm sorry, the information space with with how, where news is within it.
Speaker:Because I mean, publishers exist within this larger information space.
Speaker:Like people on X are doing something very different than
Speaker:what the New York Times is doing.
Speaker:But at the end of the day, it's all part of this weird
Speaker:overall system and I feel like.
Speaker:The content system, if you will, is kind of similar.
Speaker:It's video games, it's gonna be vr, it's gonna be ar, it's
Speaker:it, it's already creators.
Speaker:It can be influencers, it can be everything.
Speaker:I don't want to diminish what the influencer economy is.
Speaker:I don't wanna diminish the salaries that are being paid and the paychecks that
Speaker:are being, generated in that sphere.
Speaker:But I also think when people conflate that with Hollywood.
Speaker:It's not really apples to apples.
Speaker:And so we cover, we cover the influencer economy, we write about
Speaker:influencers, we talk to creators.
Speaker:We, you know, we have really great coverage, but when it
Speaker:comes to what our audience wants to read, they wanna read about.
Speaker:You know what's going on behind the scenes at the white, the latest
Speaker:season of the White Lotus, right?
Speaker:They wanna read what the latest studio chief is doing in green lighting and
Speaker:and putting out at Warner Brothers.
Speaker:They wanna read what's happening on HBO slash hbo max slash hbo max at max
Speaker:slash h. Like they wanna read about what's happening in the industry and
Speaker:there still is a very vibrant, strong.
Speaker:Creative, interesting industry that we're covering and it's very, it's a very,
Speaker:very interesting time to cover Hollywood.
Speaker:I think you know, the tension and the questions about the future
Speaker:of Hollywood make for great stories for our journalists.
Speaker:Yeah.
Speaker:Go
Speaker:really imp big, big component of our business that we haven't mentioned
Speaker:is that, is what we call artisans, which is below the line, the, the
Speaker:arts, the crafts, the technical, you know, makeup, hairstyling, costume.
Speaker:And one thing that really helps us is that we.
Speaker:We cover, when we cover the white Lotus, we cover it from the first germ
Speaker:of the idea, the, you know, when they announced the setting and the casting.
Speaker:We cover all of that.
Speaker:At the end of it.
Speaker:We also cover, we talk to the costumer, we talk to the set
Speaker:designer, we talk to the person that the lo, the person that found these
Speaker:incredible locations, and here's why.
Speaker:There's this whole huge dialogue of the arts and crafts community,
Speaker:which is the heart and literally the heart and soul of the creative
Speaker:community, the entertainment creative community in Los Angeles and New York.
Speaker:The heart and soul of that, ask any writer, director, actor, they will tell
Speaker:you the heart and soul are the crews.
Speaker:You do not make a movie or TV show without a crew and crafts and technical
Speaker:experts that put all this stuff together.
Speaker:And we cover that.
Speaker:We cover sound mixers.
Speaker:We get sound mixers together to talk.
Speaker:About the state of the art or compare, compare notes on that.
Speaker:That's not gonna be as popular as something like a major cover story with.
Speaker:A chanting Tatum or a Ryan Gosling, but to our audience, to our
Speaker:core audience, that's, it's as important and people are interested.
Speaker:And then the super fans, the super fan of the White Lotus
Speaker:Reads every, we can track it.
Speaker:They read every story that we publish.
Speaker:If we get, we could, we could.
Speaker:Publish.
Speaker:You know, we, I mean, we can cover every inch.
Speaker:These huge shows drive so much traffic and we give people everything.
Speaker:We'll talk to the composer, we'll talk to, you know, we literally break
Speaker:it down and that's not clickbait.
Speaker:That's what we've been doing for 120 years, and we're very, very,
Speaker:we're one of the few, very few people that invest in that level
Speaker:of deep discussion of the craft.
Speaker:There used to be a lot of different, there used to be a lot of like, sort of wonky
Speaker:journals that were really, really for.
Speaker:Cinematographers and really get deep and geeky on lenses and focus and everything.
Speaker:A lot of those have gone away and we are a real hub for that.
Speaker:And it's, it's super important and very much it keeps us connected
Speaker:with that core, core industry that makes the world screens light up.
Speaker:Yeah.
Speaker:On the artisan front, and this is the last topic I wanna get to, but is how much,
Speaker:like how would you gauge the AI dread?
Speaker:Overall in, in Hollywood, obviously it was a big, it was a big part of the
Speaker:negotiations, during the labor dispute.
Speaker:and I think it hangs over just about every creative industry at this point.
Speaker:you see VO three and, and you play it forward, and I don't know, you
Speaker:can see a lot of displacement.
Speaker:look, I think we all are waiting to see how the industry's gonna change.
Speaker:With ai, we're obviously covering it very vigorously.
Speaker:We're aware of the questions that it's raising and the.
Speaker:Involved with ai, but I think for us as a newsroom, what we are
Speaker:confident of is that AI cannot rep, reproduce or replace great journalism.
Speaker:It can't re, and one of our philosophies and one of our real missions has
Speaker:been to hire the best journalists out there from Tatiana Siegel to Matt
Speaker:Donnelley, covering investigations to all of our incredible critics.
Speaker:We have invested in criticism to, our film reporters, to our international team
Speaker:covering film festivals around the world.
Speaker:AI is not going to be able to replicate the work that they
Speaker:do, and we're waiting to see how the industry adapts and changes.
Speaker:And obviously there will be change and people will sort of see how
Speaker:AI replaces some areas of the business and helps in other areas.
Speaker:But at our core as journal.
Speaker:We are confident that journalism still matters and that
Speaker:great writing still matters.
Speaker:And that is I think, one of the reasons why we've been successful.
Speaker:We've invested in writing, and I may be, that may be counterintuitive
Speaker:in this day and age when you know, there's so many different ways in
Speaker:which people get their information, but it really is about the writing.
Speaker:If you produce great writing, people will read your publication,
Speaker:and that is something we strongly, strongly believe in.
Speaker:Yeah.
Speaker:Cindy, how about like, within the industry?
Speaker:Like what are, what are you hearing?
Speaker:you know, how much, I mean, maybe there isn't much like dread.
Speaker:It seems like there is a lot of changes going on about how entertainment
Speaker:will be made in the future.
Speaker:And, I don't know.
Speaker:I'm interested in in, in what?
Speaker:I will tell you that, that back to the covering, because we cover the art and
Speaker:the technical, you know, the technical and the craft side of the business so
Speaker:well, ai, AI has been in visual effects.
Speaker:AI has been driving visual effects from, for well over 10 years.
Speaker:So there's a little bit of like, you know, shock the gambling's
Speaker:going on in Casablanca.
Speaker:Like we, because we cover the visual effects world, because we cover everything
Speaker:from the, the high tech of the visual effects world to the, to the labor
Speaker:issues and the union drives that, that the visual effects world have had.
Speaker:All of that stuff.
Speaker:None of this is new to us.
Speaker:The what's new is the more consumer application of ai and we've been
Speaker:covering that quite a bit, both from the human drama of all the companies,
Speaker:but also for sure the impact.
Speaker:We don't have a crystal ball and can say what's happening in the industry, but
Speaker:we can, but what we can do is have smart conversations with smart people that are
Speaker:either trying to figure it out or making a case for this, that, or the other.
Speaker:we've had a lot of, we've had a lot of kind of high level AI coverage.
Speaker:Our, you know, when there's a big issue in the industry, you're gonna see thoughtful,
Speaker:deep, detailed coverage in variety.
Speaker:That's, that's just the, the symbiotic relationship.
Speaker:but you're not seeing anything right now where it's like, you
Speaker:know, vibe coding that there's gonna be like vibe movie making,
Speaker:No, but we also don't know.
Speaker:We have to be honest, sometimes as journalists, we don't
Speaker:know what we don't know.
Speaker:So we don't know what AI is gonna do to the industry in the next five years.
Speaker:There's many predictions and there's many guesses, and we are going to be
Speaker:covering it every step of the way.
Speaker:But I think, I think we have to.
Speaker:This is a wait and see situation.
Speaker:Yeah, I mean it.
Speaker:Is it to see how much people it's coming.
Speaker:I just don't know how, I don't know what the consumer demand is going to
Speaker:be for, just like, you know, I think vibe coding got got ahead of itself.
Speaker:It's like, well, it doesn't connect to a database.
Speaker:This is like, I think, you know, probably, at least initially and
Speaker:for a little while, a lot of the things that are gonna be created by
Speaker:these, these AI engines is going to.
Speaker:Be interesting, but it's not gonna be compelling if they, you know what I mean?
Speaker:Uh, because I don't know.
Speaker:I could be wrong.
Speaker:I still don't think they're very good at human storytelling,
Speaker:but time will tell as they say.
Speaker:cool.
Speaker:Ramin, Cynthia, thank you so much.
Speaker:Really appreciate this conversation.
Speaker:It's
Speaker:This has been so much fun.
Speaker:Thank you so much for
Speaker:Thank you, Brian.
Speaker:I appreciate it.
Speaker:Good questions.
